![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
Rocks with Cloaks
Dec. 15th, 2007 01:25 pmThe back story to this post: ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
jurgenzuvols is the Baron-elect of Ponte Alto (he's also a former Westie), and wants to have really nice clothes for stepping up, a Rock with a Cloak worn over the top, cloak being based on the Moritz von Sachsen cloak.
cathgrace said in comments to an earlier post that she didn't think that this was done since in her understanding the Rock and the Cloak were both outer garments like a coat, and one wouldn't have been worn over the top of the other.
Here is a brief (and I do mean brief, as in, took less than 30 mins), look into the artwork to see if Rocks are depicted as being covered with Cloaks or Schaube and treated as inner garements, not just outer garments. I can certainly think of lots of pictures of the Rock being treated as an outer garment, like a tunic would be, and not just as an extra layer for warmth. Textiler Hausrat mentions that the wams and hose took the place of the armour when it was worn in civilian settings, and that the lower classes appear to have worn it by itself. (1.1.5 Leibrock - Paltrock - Wappenrock)
From the Augsburg Murals
Black Rock with a yellow rectangular shawl
Auszug der Ratsherren aus dem Augsburger Rathaus A group of older men in Schauben. Unable to tell what they are wearing underneath the Schaube, but the neckline looks very similar to a Rock, and the Schuabe are held out like there is a lot of fabric underneath.
A very nice red rock
Here's a nice picture of a yellow and black cloak, very similar to the Moritz von Sachsen cloak
Another yellow cloak picture This time showing the wams and hosen that the fashionable young man is wearing underneath them.
The problem with finding Rock with Schaube or Cloaks over the top of them is that often times the Schaube or cloak is completely closed over the top. You can see the cone shaped spread that the rock would give, but now conclusive evidence.
So I really don't think that one can say it wasn't done, but I don't yet have conclusive evidence that it was. More later
ETA and ETA again, link fixed
Holbein's The Ambassador's is the kind of look I'm looking for.
jurgenzuvols is the Baron-elect of Ponte Alto (he's also a former Westie), and wants to have really nice clothes for stepping up, a Rock with a Cloak worn over the top, cloak being based on the Moritz von Sachsen cloak.cathgrace said in comments to an earlier post that she didn't think that this was done since in her understanding the Rock and the Cloak were both outer garments like a coat, and one wouldn't have been worn over the top of the other.Here is a brief (and I do mean brief, as in, took less than 30 mins), look into the artwork to see if Rocks are depicted as being covered with Cloaks or Schaube and treated as inner garements, not just outer garments. I can certainly think of lots of pictures of the Rock being treated as an outer garment, like a tunic would be, and not just as an extra layer for warmth. Textiler Hausrat mentions that the wams and hose took the place of the armour when it was worn in civilian settings, and that the lower classes appear to have worn it by itself. (1.1.5 Leibrock - Paltrock - Wappenrock)
From the Augsburg Murals
Black Rock with a yellow rectangular shawl
Auszug der Ratsherren aus dem Augsburger Rathaus A group of older men in Schauben. Unable to tell what they are wearing underneath the Schaube, but the neckline looks very similar to a Rock, and the Schuabe are held out like there is a lot of fabric underneath.
A very nice red rock
Here's a nice picture of a yellow and black cloak, very similar to the Moritz von Sachsen cloak
Another yellow cloak picture This time showing the wams and hosen that the fashionable young man is wearing underneath them.
The problem with finding Rock with Schaube or Cloaks over the top of them is that often times the Schaube or cloak is completely closed over the top. You can see the cone shaped spread that the rock would give, but now conclusive evidence.
So I really don't think that one can say it wasn't done, but I don't yet have conclusive evidence that it was. More later
ETA and ETA again, link fixed
Holbein's The Ambassador's is the kind of look I'm looking for.
