Robin Neatherton's lectures...

[mmcnealy]

So today I went to Robin N's lectures, she covered the fitted gown, but not the actual fitting I heard that it takes 9 hours to do the fittings for it. The Burgundian v-neck gown, the Greenland gowns, Sideless surcoats and images of Saints in artwork.

I have to say that the artwork was great, I was not impressed that she read from a script, that she didn't have her artwork references with her AND she did not cover WHY she chooses to construct her fitted gowns the way she does. I do agree with her that the major technical advances were the set-in sleeves and a front closure in gowns, but that the dress was made in 4 panels, fitted to the body, sewn and then the excess cut away? I just don't think so, not convinced yada yada.

She also has a VERY narrow artistic focus and when we asked her what she thought of a particular book of woodcuts from Germany that showed something similar and may hold an answer to a question she posed, she had never heard of them. She also declared that she never looked at Spanish or Italian artwork from the time period. So basically if it wasn't English, French or Flemish, she didn't want to discuss it.

She is very opinionated, determined and sure she's right, even though she kept declaring that her way wasn't the only way.

My Baroness was not impressed. Neither was I. Sorry to say, but she doesn't have all the answers that one would hope she would have had after 20 some odd years of making these dresses.

At least I can now say I have been to one of her lectures and make my own opinion of her methods.

Comments

[linuxwitch.livejournal.com]

It sounds like her method is basically an artistic anachronism, yes? Good to hear that not everyone places such persons on marble pedastals. :)

I'm very pleased with my own work with two styles of t-tunics, of which can be quite fitted and flattering, without all the jirations needed with the R.N. method. Then again, they aren't perfectly period, but WHAT is nowadays? eh?

[mmcnealy.livejournal.com]

I don't know if its an artistic anachronism, but in the 24 hours since her lecture, I have found 2 or 3 gowns of the gothic fitted dress slouchy type with WAIST seams. Yah, right lady, its 4 pieces.


GRRR.... I am in a seriously grumpy mood tonight with a splitting headache. I do have your 5 questions for you, but will have to get to it tomorrow. Need to get to bed.

[linuxwitch.livejournal.com]

No worries. I know how the headache thing works all too well. Interesting that you were able to find such fascinating results within a short period of time. Perhaps one day when I have the figure of a Gothic Supermodel I'll wear one of those dresses. LOL

[pinque.livejournal.com]

I would love to see the examples with waist seams:) There are a few illuminations out there that show some interesting seaming too, including one with a seam going over the bust. My personal feeling is there are many ways to get the look of a garment in period, especially as there was little travel between even close cities of tailors eh? Actually that's an area that I'd love to find some more about. The actual moving about of ideas of construction etc.

Not too sure of Robin's method of cutting but I can get a four panel dress out of a blanket with minimal wastage because I cut a near enough shape from the fabric, topping and tailing the pieces and then pin and trim the excess away. And of course topping and tailing and mixing grains (my sleeves are sometimes cut with the grain or sometimes across it) is perfectly period pratice;)

I add as many gores as there is of fabric left over.

Actually I may just do a handout as I will possibly be teaching a class at our local collegium and so have something to actually show when I try to describe my cutting techniques...

[mmcnealy.livejournal.com]

I will scan some in, hopefully today and post the links. They are really interesting examples that's for sure.

[misscrabtree.livejournal.com]

Excuse the typos, I got a little excited. LOL

[misscrabtree.livejournal.com]

Marion, it's very interesting to hear your experience on the lecture. I happen to be an art history student and had a miserable experience last semester. I was taking Materials and Methods with a Professer who's specialty is Romanesque. We were required to attend a Lecture and a Symposia. The symposia I attended was held in Manhattan and the topic was Picasso and Matisse. I sat through six talks and the only impressive talk was from a Professor who taught at NYU. The other talks were all read from the papers they submitted. Next: A few months later I attended a lecture at Montclair Museum on Michelangelo (I forgot the distinguished Professors name at the moment) and was quite impressed...no notes all from the mans head and intelligent. At the end of the semester my Professor required us to give a 15 minute presentation accompanied by slides and ... get this ... we were required to read from our papers and not from note cards nor from memory. Because as she says "That my dears (the class was filled with only women) is the way to present a paper." I was mortified, because reading form a paper to me,means one is not prepared. Finally, I have learned from this particular Professor, some who possess a PhD in AH, are bias, they think only within thier area of expertise. So, my Romanesque Professor, rarely pays attention to anything outside of her area of study. To my they cant seem to think out sige the box.

[(Anonymous)]

Hope this isn't offensive, like Robin I guess I'm pretty bad at communicating. Feel free to edit this Marion.

Glad someone's finally had the courage to speak out. Go you! I like Robin's way of draping fitted unwaisted dresses but it's not the only way of cutting. Waist seams and more panels are okay but they don't exist in her world. Does it really take 9 hours? I never knew. What is she thinking of?

Friends and I've been on an email list the same time as her. There's always problems with email cuz it's not speaking but we just can't *relate* with her the way we can with other on line costumers. Not being rude only she doesn't seem like someone I want to share time with though I respect her knowledge. And she posts on subjects she hasn't a clue about like she's an expert. Someone asked about brown Victorian wedding dresses. It was a common color for working women and some religions cuz a pale dress wasn't practical. But she said it's cuz they faded from red!!!!! *LOL*.

And Drea once ranted about a links page saying most of the links copied hers. (There was actully only a couple of links that looked copied. Lots of people's links page are totally copied from Drea and Jen so I wonder why Drea picked on them? The page was there last year and they had a whole bunch o links Drea didn't have till a few months ago. They still have good links she doesn't. Maybe she copied them?!! *LOL* ) Anyhow the point is Robin said she should demand a credit and SUE them!!!!!!!!! When someone said that was WAY overreacting for a couple of links Robin admitted she hadn't looked at the page. So why did she comment at all?

Basically some of these self-promoted costuming *experts* forget they began trying to learn stuff and share that learning with others. They forget they make mistakes like the well known site which used to say Elizabethan women wore drawers cuz of pictures of venetian courtesans! Their heads get turned by all the attention and they get to thinking they're infallible. Also if they don't have the trick of teaching and they aren't a trained educator it doesn't matter how much they know, they won't explain it well. I don't mean disrespect to those people, they've done so much. But sometimes they forget they're on the same planet as us.

You, Jen, Missa, Sarah, Sarra and all are more humble and more sincere. It's a big part of the reason why we love your sites so much.

This is 'costume blasphemy' like someone said on their website (forget who). I'll be hiding from now on!