mmcnealy: (Default)
[personal profile] mmcnealy
Is it just an optical illusion, or the way its drawn, or is this manuscript really showing a baking oven on wheels?

Pastetenbäcker
Dieses Bild: 006705
Kunstwerk: Federzeichnung koloriert ; Illustrationszyklus Chronik ; Schwaben
Dokumentation: 1465 ; 1475 ; Wien ; Österreich ; Wien ; Österreichische Nationalbibliothek ; cod. 3044 ; fol. 48v
Anmerkungen: Ulrich von Richental. Konzil von Konstanz

http://tarvos.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/images/7008536.JPG

(no subject)

Date: 2007-08-04 12:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] femkederoas.livejournal.com
No, that looks like a baking oven on wheels. Probably clay over brick. And they've added a few loose planks in front to cool the pies coming out of the oven. This has "early street vendor" written all over it.

Which reminds me that I should continue my hunt for a period pretzel recipe. ;-)

(no subject)

Date: 2007-08-04 12:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fiannaharpar.livejournal.com
Yep. Baking oven on wheels.

Period Pretzel? Look in the Low Countries....or send me email :-)

(no subject)

Date: 2007-08-04 01:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] systemgoddess.livejournal.com
Looks like a baking oven on wheels to me. I wouldn't want to be the guy in back ;-)

(no subject)

Date: 2007-08-04 02:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ornerie.livejournal.com
looks very similar to other ovens in other mss illos I've seen.
cool, huh? mistress Kate wants to build one and sell pretzels at events. personal experience says the thing is gonna be dang heavy if you make it right.... I hope she has lots of sturdy minions willing to pull the thing about!

(no subject)

Date: 2007-08-04 02:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aclisto.livejournal.com
Perhaps it has extended back handle bars enabling the cart to be butted up against the oven so that the bread doesn't fall to the ground and the guy on the back can help stabilize the cart and push to enable the cart to move more quickly so you get hot bread fast. Like a early age pizza hut delivery :) Just thinking outside the box

(no subject)

Date: 2007-08-04 03:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aliskye.livejournal.com
Totally looks like a transportable oven to me. And pretzels! Dang...now I'm hungry.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-08-04 05:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] florentinescot.livejournal.com
I've seen things like that before. What mss is that from?

(no subject)

Date: 2007-08-04 06:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] katanubis.livejournal.com
That's just plain wild!

nice pic

Date: 2007-08-05 09:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ramblingheritic.livejournal.com
This is a different pic than the one I normally see.
The other one of this device has a more beehive appearance.

http://www.godecookery.com/afeast/kitchens/kit031.html

I am missing the reference but these date back to Rome when they were used as campaign ovens.

An excellent text on building your own is
Build Your Own Earth Oven
http://www.amazon.com/Build-Your-Own-Earth-Oven/dp/096798467X/ref=cm_taf_text_link?ie=UTF8&tag=tellafriend-20

In that book he describes a portable sized one he built for a festival that after one fireing was able to produce pizzas all day.

Some photos of the williamsburg oven
http://www.flickr.com/photos/solvarr/sets/72157601167778914/

There is a lady at pennsic who makes ovens out of a mix of clay and straw formed around a terracotta flowerpot.

me.... I use my gas forge as it cools at the end of the day. one it stops glowing I can bake for about 20 minutes

Sorry about spewing the data. reabhecc sent me your post.

Re: nice pic

Date: 2007-08-06 02:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mmcnealy.livejournal.com
Hi! Nice to meet you. :) No problem on the rambling, I love the friend-of-a-friend connections LJ produces.

I'll have to get that book from the library, and I love the Williamsburg ovens, that place is just so darn inspirational!

(no subject)

Date: 2007-08-05 09:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anjabeth.livejournal.com
It is indeed a bake oven on wheels. I've done some (basic) research that says they were fairly common, since not every house would have its own oven. There are quite a few german woodcuts featuring them, but I think this is the first colored drawing I've seen. Very nice!

(no subject)

Date: 2007-08-06 02:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mmcnealy.livejournal.com
I knew that there were communal bake ovens, but I just didn't realize that they were portable. Of course, it makes sense for there to be portable ovens for festivals and armies on the move.

timely!

Date: 2007-08-07 08:56 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] rectangularcat
I just read a paper on portable ovens in eastern europe in medieval times.

Re: timely!

Date: 2007-08-08 10:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mmcnealy.livejournal.com
Neat! what's the citation on it?

Re: timely!

Date: 2007-08-08 02:18 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] rectangularcat
Article: "Le four mobile, image du monde", par Marianne MESNIL et Assia POPOVA

found in
Bread, Ovens and Hearths of the Past: Archaeology and Baking Traditions of Agriculture Civilizations in Europe and the Near East (Pain, fours, et foyers des temps passés: archéologie et traditions boulangères des peuples agriculteurs d'Europe et du Proche Orient), assembled by Kai Fechner and Marianne Mesnil

I just got it from ILL. Unfortunately I can't give you the abstract of the article in question as I returned it yesterday morning!

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