What makes it clothing versus a costume?

[mmcnealy]

I posted this on a mailing list, but thought I should post it here too.
The original question was something along the lines of "All the stuff I've made so far is costumes, how do I to making historical clothing?"

My response:

I've been thinking lately about "What makes it clothing versus a costume?", and this is what I've come up with.

- The design and its fit with your personality

I think a big part of what makes the difference is does this garment reflect who I am mundainly? Because try as we might, who we are out of persona or playing very much affects who we are during play. I could put on an Elizabethian embroidered from here to Sunday, but its not ME, so it would come off as a costume. But if I put on one of my German dresses, its simple yet pretty, functional, its ME mundainly.

Good questions to ask yourself are:

Am I a person who likes things elaborate or simple?

What are the period colors I look good in?

What are the period styles that fit my body shape?

What are the period styles that people in my income level and occupation would have worn?

-Fabric and materials

Fabric choice is of course a huge part of what makes the outfit. I've seen clothing that would have been stunning if it had been made out of silk, linen or wool, instead of the funky printed cotton that the person had chosen. Research what your persona would have worn in the season that you are making the outfit for, but also take local weather conditions into consideration. Heatstroke is not fun, neither is being sick because you got chilled

-Fit and comfort of the garment

Do you feel comfortable in the garment? Does it fit you? Are the undergarments right for the outfit? Do the shoulders fall off and drive you nuts? Does the neck fit or gape?

If the armholes are too tight or the front gaps or you can't walk across the field in it due to the train, you are going to feel like its a costume and not clothing.

My first priority when making clothing is "Can I live in this?" "Can I bend down and pick something up?" "Walk up and down stairs?" "Use the restroom?"

So I make the outfit in advance and wear it around the house and put it through its paces. If it doesn't work, then I take it apart and fix it.

-Proper headwear and accessories

I find that having the proper head covering is what takes the outfit from a costume into the clothing that puts me in the persona. I think little accessories like aprons, proper belts, bags or baskets make big differences.

Putting on my white linen veil over the unterhaube to make the steuchlein (German woman's headdress from the 1500's), tying on my apron and picking up my market basket are crucial things to making the clothing 'work' and take me from Marion into Sophia, German merchant's wife from Nurnberg.

Comments

[aeddie.livejournal.com]

There are many (expensive) well fitting costumes so in my opinion fit is not a major consideration.

These are some of the things I think about.
-Can I wear it more than once.
-Is it made with period to the clothes materials (or at least look and feel)
-Am I comfortable wearing it? Not does it fit right and is therefore comfortable, but does is feel "right?"

To me clothing vs. costume is in large part a state of mine.

Last year I got comp tickets to RPFS and went with Mary. SouthFaire is sliding on the way to being a fantasy faire with plenty of fairy wings etc. Some of the people in period garments looked more in costume than some of the fantasy barbarians and fairy wing types who were comfortable with what they were wearing. What that says about them I'm not going to speculate. I was very comfortable in my doublet and pumpkin pants, but would have felt very akward and out of place in some of the mixed genre things people were wearing, even if it fit equally as well.

[mmcnealy.livejournal.com]

This is what happens when I try to ponitficate before coffee....

I completely agree with you that part of it is definitly in the mind. What I meant to write was:

Does it mentally fit you?
Are you comfortable wearing it?

I'm sure jogging suits are very comfortable, but I'm not comfortable wearing them, therefore for me they would be costumey, not my regular clothes.

Nice story about South Faire, I'll have to keep that in mind so I don't go.

[pandorasbox.livejournal.com]

Hi aeddie I have added you as a friend. Any man brave enough to wear pumpkin pants is a friend of mine-Ysabelot

[aeddie.livejournal.com]

Thanx.

But poofy pumpkin pants are easy. Go check my diary for what I'm wearing to Coronation in a couple weeks. That much screaming fuschia is a bit more difficult. :-)) But then I used to do theatre and as everyone knows all of us theatre people are nuts right?

[lady-guenievre.livejournal.com]

Oddly enough, I find my (somewhat elaborate) houppelandes to be necessary to get into persona for me - I *like* playing upper class, because it's as far as possible from my every day life. The restrictive nature of trains/trailing sleeves changes the way I move, and what I can do... in something less restrictive (a working-wear type cote) it's easier to fall back on being Jennifer rather than Guenievre.

I do agreee that veils/headgear are essential to getting into the mindset.

[mmcnealy.livejournal.com]

It isn't odd that it takes different clothes for you to get into persona than it does me, we are two *completly* different people. What are clothes for you would be costume for me because I wouldn't be mentally comfortable in it.

I guess my point is that for every person it will be different things that get you into clothes versus costume.

[ciorstan.livejournal.com]

I think what you're looking for is the Beau Brummel view on clothes. There is a great line from a Georgette Heyer novel that has him saying, with contempt: "His tailor makes him. Now, I-- I make my tailor."

What I look for in the stuff I think are successful clothes is largely Brummel's attitude. It has to fit right to contribute to the mental mindset that one is wearing clothes, not a costume. To paraphrase something else I read of Brummel's views: You put your clothes on, make final adjustments-- then forget about them until the time comes to remove them.

If one is always twitching or swishing one's garments because of off-grain cutting, ill-fit or the novelty factor, then one is wearing a costume. Clothes is clothes, whether it's a doublet, poofy pants, a full-circle cloak or a skirt with a long train.

[noxcat.livejournal.com]

You put your clothes on, make final adjustments-- then forget about them until the time comes to remove them.

I also think of clothes as being sturdier than costumes. These were items they wore every day for many years. (Certainly for longer than we as a society tend to wear our disposably clothing for.) If it won't stand up to being worn a couple of times a year, to me it's a costume.

Hi, Marion. This post clinched it - I had to "friend" you. :)

[mmcnealy.livejournal.com]

Hi, I friended you back.

[mmcnealy.livejournal.com]

"You put your clothes on, make final adjustments-- then forget about them until the time comes to remove them."

Yes! That is exactly what I am talking about!

Beau Brummel?

[mmcnealy.livejournal.com]

Ciorstan,
What is the name of the Georgette Heyer novel that this is in, do you know? Having never read GH, I'm not really sure where to start, but she sounds like a great writer.

Re: Beau Brummel?

[ciorstan.livejournal.com]

I believe it's in "Regency Buck", a comment made to the heroine, Miss Judith Tavener.

Georgette Heyer novels are what I'd call timeless comedies of manners. They are sedate by modern standards-- and some of them are howlingly funny. I think the funniest one is "The Unknown Ajax," which has a scene of a family evading the local Customs officer, who is intent on arresting one of them for smuggling. She is spot on with dialogue, characterization and milieu.

Then there are the more tiresome ones, like the historical fiction (Beauvallet, Simon the Coldheart, Lord John, An Infamous Army, The Spanish Bride); one cannot fault her historical research, but... There are several Georgians, but most of her books are Regency. She also wrote quite a lot of contemporary murder mysteries during the '30s and '40s. IIRC, Georgette Heyer died in the early 1970s, in her sixties.

I've bolded my favorites and indicated tiresome by italic:

The Black Moth.
Powder and Patch.
These Old Shades.
The Masqueraders.
Devil's Cub. memorable quotation: "I feel an overwhelming interest in the methods of daylight abduction employed by the modern youth."
The Convenient Marriage.
Regency Buck.
The Talisman Ring.
An Infamous Army.
The Corinthian.
The Spanish Bride.
Faro's Daughter.
Friday's Child.
The Reluctant Widow.
The Foundling.
Arabella.
The Grand Sophy.
The Quiet Gentleman
Cotillion.
The Toll-Gate.
Bath Tangle.
Sprig Muslin.
April Lady.
Sylvester, or the Wicked Uncle.
Venetia.
The Unknown Ajax.
Pistols for Two.
A Civil Contract.
The Nonesuch.
False Colours.
Frederica.
Black Sheep.
Cousin Kate.
Charity Girl.
A Lady of Quality.

Re: Beau Brummel?

[brambleberry.livejournal.com]

I feel forced to chime in. ;> OK, so I buy every used one I see, on the theory that when my current copy falls apart, I'll have a replacement. I'm so glad that they are being reprinted.

It's interesting to see how opinions differ. I looooove The Talisman Ring. I laugh & laugh & laugh. Actually, I'm having a hard time not bolding most of them. I think, instead of curling up with my new book I bought at lunch, I need to take down a GH & curl up.

The Black Moth.
Powder and Patch.
These Old Shades.
The Masqueraders.
Devil's Cub.
The Convenient Marriage.
Regency Buck.
The Talisman Ring.
An Infamous Army.
The Corinthian.
The Spanish Bride.
Faro's Daughter.
Friday's Child.
The Reluctant Widow.
The Foundling.
Arabella.
The Grand Sophy.
The Quiet Gentleman
Cotillion.
The Toll-Gate.
Bath Tangle.
Sprig Muslin.
April Lady.
Sylvester, or the Wicked Uncle.
Venetia.
The Unknown Ajax.
Pistols for Two.
A Civil Contract.
The Nonesuch.
False Colours.
Frederica.
Black Sheep.
Cousin Kate.
Charity Girl.
A Lady of Quality.

clothes vs costume

[merastra.livejournal.com]

That's a cool post. Oddly, I was just thinking about the same thing. I had decided in the past that part of what made it "clothes" was how durable it was (strength of seams, etc) and how "detail finished" it was. You're on to something I was definately missing though, the mindset. Thanks!

[jenthompson.livejournal.com]

Interesting topic. I totally agree with everything you listed. I also have a big fetish about the weight of clothes right now. Period clothing was constructed so much heavier than what we are used to wearing, and if you get all of the fabrics and linings and interlinings right, it just has a physicality that many people miss when they try to skimp on the layers. I also think it becomes clothing when the parts that you can't see are as good and the parts you can. Oh... and a little bit of wear-and-tear and irregularity is wonderful. Things always look costumey to me when they are too perfect. Even noble stuff needs to look lived in.

[mmcnealy.livejournal.com]

I actually hadn't thought about this, but I completely agree with you about the weight of the garments being a big issue towards making it clothes. Having the dress settle onto your shoulders, your posture changes, your balance shifts, your walk changes to be able to walk properly in the clothes. Its always amazing to me how heavy the outfits are on the hanger, and how light they are on my body.

I also agree with the underlayers needing to be right in order for the outer layers to work. That's why it takes so long for a dress to be made, I keep making new styles that require new underlayers.

The Devil is the Details

[brambleberry.livejournal.com]

For me, it's all about finishwork & accessories. Is the hem done by hand, or was I in a hurry? If I have the correct layers & the right "stuff" to go with, I feel like I'm wearing clothing. Nobody but me knows that the skirt seamlines on my white linen tunic have been sewn down with blue silk, because that area is covered, but I do. When I dress up to go out, I put on nice clothing, makeup, nice jewelry, a belt, sock, good shoes, and pick up a sparkly handbag. When I dress up for an event, I (try to) put on nice clothing, appropriate jewelry, a belt, and handbag (or whatever).

[twe.livejournal.com]

Hey, thanks for this post (and thanks to merastra for putting me onto it!) I'm going to follow noxcat's lead and friend you too. ;)

[pinque.livejournal.com]

For me costume is a really touchy word;)

Mostly because it is abused so much.

All it means is an entire enseble worn for a specific task, region or time.

That is exactly what we are recreating. No matter how well or badly something is made, it is still costume because of where we are now. We cannot help it as these items are not what we normally wear every day with no specific meaning.

I'm pasting my reply to my costuming journal as I think I have managed to phrase what I mean in the fewest words I've used so far;)